Kevin Maher Working w/ NKOTB, Getting Blockhead Love & Building Community S1E9

[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Vergi Rodriguez and this is A Race Of Your Own where we talk about inspiration that leads to resilience.

[00:00:07] And today's guest I'm really excited to have here. He is a creative director and choreographer.

[00:00:12] He's choreographed on a global scale for top selling tours and music videos for artists like Madonna, Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, New Kids On The Block, Ricky Martin, Nicki Minaj, Mariah Carey, Becky G and Pitbull.

[00:00:24] He's also worked on primetime TV shows like Dancing with the Stars, X Factor and America's Got Talent.

[00:00:30] And he's also creative director of his new show, his new endeavor called Swallow. Welcome to the show, Kevin Maher.

[00:00:36] Thank you so much.

[00:00:37] Hi! How are you feeling? You look fabulous.

[00:00:41] I went through the resume credits in my head. I was like, oh yeah, I did do that.

[00:00:45] You know, it's so funny because when I go through people's credits, they don't remember all the stuff that they've done and they're just such amazing individuals.

[00:00:53] You know, 20 years of work wrapped up into a paragraph and some titles and you're like, oh yeah, I did do that.

[00:01:01] Or right now I was thinking, oh, I did Pitbull a few times. I just forgot about that.

[00:01:05] Yeah.

[00:01:06] Yeah.

[00:01:07] They fly by.

[00:01:07] Yeah, they do fly by. And I mean, just to kind of like start with one of the ones that I recently saw on tour was New Kids on the Block, you know, their Magic Summer tour. I ended up going to their show down in San Diego.

[00:01:19] And I remember just walking in there and, you know, their fandom is so supportive and so big. And I see how supportive they are of you.

[00:01:28] Yeah.

[00:01:29] Especially with like the career that you've had, you know, like, how do you feel that has kind of, because I remember you from New York City when we were just like training, we were going to Broadway Dance Center, you know, and to see this, this huge group with this fandom and this huge tour that did so well.

[00:01:48] And to see the work that you did, I really was just like, I was taken aback because I was like, this is phenomenal because you've been with them for a while. Right.

[00:01:56] Thanks. Yeah.

[00:01:57] Of course. So I say that as like, I've kind of seen your evolution, you know, through the years. Right.

[00:02:04] And yes, of course. And, you know, it's so impressive, you know, because I have so many people around me that are just so creative, so talented, so amazing.

[00:02:13] You know, what for you through this, because a lot of what we talk about on this show is being in a race of your own. Right.

[00:02:20] And we're going to delve into it a little bit, but, you know, because I also know that, you know, you were going to go to NASA too.

[00:02:27] So that, so I'm like, I'm kind of, I've been getting to that. I'm like, that's really where I want to start as like a jumping point.

[00:02:33] Right. But like, you know, we can start anywhere, but, but your career is so strong. It's so vast. You've worked with so many amazing people. You know, how, how did you go from, you know, NASA to I want to go to New York City and be this, this dancer. I want to, I want to be this creative.

[00:02:49] Um, wow. Um, in a nutshell, tell me, go.

[00:02:52] No, no. Uh, I've always been a smart kid. I've always gotten straight A's, even in the, um, subjects that I didn't enjoy. And that was my ticket out of like doing the same thing. I have a big family of six. Um, it's not a lot of money there. We didn't grow up rich. Um, and I could see that by being, getting good grades, I was left alone.

[00:03:18] Like he's fine. He's getting A's like, that's the definition of your kids. Okay. I guess for like a large family. Um, and then I got a scholarship into like an all boys private technical high school. Um, and it was like, I don't remember, maybe it was like 15 grand a year or something like that for high school.

[00:03:39] So I ended up paying my own way through that. And then, um, that particular school sets you up with like an internship and like, um, associates degree or different credits. Like you, you end up with a lot of college experience cause you go longer hours.

[00:03:53] You pick a major, if you will. And mine was architecture and design. And so, um, I loved architecture and design so much, um, until it led to sitting down all day. Um, I love the tasks we got to do to make like, um, you know, a rollercoaster out of, uh, toothpicks and get the ping pong ball from A to B.

[00:04:14] And I loved, um, um, building bridges and I loved all these things. But once it got to just, um, mastering, um, CAD or VersaCAD and sitting down on computer, I felt really bored.

[00:04:25] But the whole time growing up, I was in all the, um, Christmas plays and all the, anything I could dance or sing or act in, I would do growing up. Um, so we, thank God we had those outlets in the little Catholic school I went to. Um, and there was some successful people there.

[00:04:43] Um, this kid, uh, was in the Mickey Mouse club. Another one was, um, dancing on star search. So there were people in our school that still had glimpses of like doing their passion for a living. Um, but my parents at least didn't advocate for that. They just wanted us to get good grades and keep going.

[00:05:03] So I saw that as like, okay, if I can force myself to get good grades and keep going, I'll be good. So that's what I did. And then, um, when I got my,

[00:05:13] my admission, I had a scholarship offer to schools in LA and I wanted to go to New York. So I chose to be on the waiting list at NYU.

[00:05:21] And I thought there's no problem going to a city college and saving money. So I moved to New York and, um, started that.

[00:05:28] And then financial aid fell through and I didn't want to ask my parents for money. So I was like, let me just get a job.

[00:05:33] So I worked, um, like seven jobs in New York city. I, I did, um, first I started working at tower records, which made no money, but had music and love and artistry everywhere.

[00:05:45] And we would have, you know, tribe called quest and shaka con come through the store. And I was living my best life. Then I made dance friends who helped me kind of, uh, lie to get a job as a waiter.

[00:05:59] They gave me the answers. And once I started waiting tables in times square, the, the realization of what kind of money I could make was amazing. Um, I would work double shifts like from, uh, I guess maybe like 8 AM till, uh, 2 AM.

[00:06:16] And then I lived in the Bronx at that time. So I would take the two train all the way back and then walk. And then I would get up really early and go to this free, um, rehearsal for what I thought was like a step towards my dream, which was La Santa Luz with Anthony Rodriguez.

[00:06:35] Yes. I went to high school with Anthony.

[00:06:36] I didn't know that.

[00:06:37] Yeah.

[00:06:37] Okay.

[00:06:38] Yeah.

[00:06:38] LaGuardia.

[00:06:39] Yeah.

[00:06:39] So, so like that's where everyone put me in.

[00:06:42] Marlene Ortiz, shout out.

[00:06:44] Marlene, Marlene Ortiz saved my whole life. Like she would look out for me with auditions. She would look out for me with all kinds of things.

[00:06:51] Amazing human being.

[00:06:52] Yeah. Um, and when I seen her like dancing with Brittany, I was like, Oh my God, like, that's what I want to do. And she's like, you need to meet this guy. His name is Showtime. And I was terrible.

[00:07:01] Shout out Showtime. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:07:03] I was terrible. And God bless Marlene and Anthony and Showtime and Rhapsody and everybody who helped support me because they saw that my drive was stronger than my talent.

[00:07:15] And I, I just knew that if I could get straight A's at things that I didn't enjoy, I could figure out a formula or how to at least be decent at something I did enjoy, which was dance.

[00:07:25] So I, I didn't want to keep going with architecture and design, but I could see that awareness in dance. Like, Oh, there's the artist, the dancers are up there, back there. And it kept me, um, kind of seeing things the same way the whole journey.

[00:07:39] Um, finally, when I went into choreography, it was even easier to design and create with an architectural background. Cause a lot of people through dance just start with the love of dance and then they learn from, you know, jobs or experience. They move up that same way.

[00:07:55] But for me, it was like starting brand new. And, um, I remember when I moved to LA again, like I was in New York from 18 to 21. And when I got back to New York at like 22, Brian Friedman told me like, nobody cares if you.

[00:08:09] Shout out Brian Friedman.

[00:08:10] Yeah. Yeah. He, he'll get you together forever.

[00:08:13] He will whip you in a shade.

[00:08:14] He's getting people together now and you know, forever. And he told me like, no one cares if you've been dancing for three years or all your life at these auditions. Like you can't look at it that way. And I was like, oh shit, you're right.

[00:08:26] Can you do the choreography? Can you hit it? Do you have a look? Do you have a vibe?

[00:08:29] Yeah. Yeah. Nobody cares. Like you can't say, Oh, I just started and I just came like nobody cares. And, and it made me also realize that in New York, um, you can learn a lot of foundation.

[00:08:39] Foundations, fundamentals. You can, you can learn how to be something in the arts there. And, but in LA, you have to already be like 80% good at what you do. And then you come in and you're in a pool of people who are excellent at what they do. And you have to just feed off them and figure it out. But you don't really get to start from scratch in LA. Um, it's, it's where everyone is the best of the best.

[00:09:03] So for me, I had this perception or perspective of using architecture and design and that mentality that helped me through choreography and teaching, um, helped me when I'm working with new kids, when I'm working with, um, Madonna, when I'm working with people who have been around for so long, I can use my tools that I learned, um, through architecture to speak to them in a way that feels fresh to them.

[00:09:31] So it's not just, I feel, or I think it feels good to do this, or we should try and dance like this reference, but I can talk to them about like, what era is it? And are the details important? Or is it more about space? And are we, um, pulling the audience eyes in? So they're hypnotized.

[00:09:51] You know, is this more about the camera shots or is this about the cheap seats energy that we're trying to connect with? And talking to people like that has gotten me really far. Um, also got me in trouble. Cause like when I toured.

[00:10:05] You take risks. Is it about taking risks? Cause a lot of what you, what you're saying too, it's like, it's like a lot of the guests I have, you know, we talk about from like where they started and where they are now.

[00:10:13] And the through line is always like this purpose, this driving force. And it may not have been back when you were in New York and you were like trying to figure it out. And then you met all these dancers and then, you know, but you had this other background that there was something about a purpose that was driving you to go, Oh, you know, I saw her in that music video and I really liked that. And you just went for it.

[00:10:32] But then now you're kind of at this place where you're, you're seeing, you can incorporate the architecture with this creative direction and this choreography. And again, I, which Madonna tour or which Madonna show did you do?

[00:10:44] I did, um, Rebel Heart.

[00:10:46] Nice.

[00:10:47] Yeah.

[00:10:47] Nice.

[00:10:48] And I got to do Bitch I'm Madonna music video and then Unapologetic Bitch for the live one.

[00:10:55] I live.

[00:10:56] The numbers that have bitch in it, I got.

[00:10:57] Of course. Why not?

[00:10:59] But, and I feel like, again, only because I most recently saw that show live was the New Kids tour.

[00:11:04] Yeah.

[00:11:05] I saw, I saw that from like a nostalgic standpoint to like the way you did the show and just like, you know, how they're standing, their spacing.

[00:11:15] Yeah.

[00:11:16] You know, the technicality of it and like the fans were like eating it up.

[00:11:20] Like they were just felt so connected, you know, in that sense.

[00:11:23] And I was looking around like, ah, this is, this is massive.

[00:11:27] This is amazing.

[00:11:27] But it's how that show translated to the audience because they felt connected.

[00:11:32] That's a special gift, that job, because I get to be myself and grow.

[00:11:37] I started working with New Kids when I was 28.

[00:11:39] Wow.

[00:11:40] And you're only 30 now.

[00:11:41] Yeah.

[00:11:42] It was their, their first reunion.

[00:11:46] So, because I grew up with a large family, I'm really good at being patient with people or seeing past what they're saying, what they're trying to say.

[00:11:54] Right.

[00:11:55] When the guys just got by together, their energies were still gelling from their different journeys.

[00:12:00] They let me be me.

[00:12:02] They let me grow in the job.

[00:12:04] They understood that I was able to come from different worlds, whether that be like street smart or perspective of architecture.

[00:12:13] So it's been really awesome.

[00:12:16] But the gift about that job is that Donnie gets to kind of be a translator of all these worlds.

[00:12:23] He makes my job easier.

[00:12:24] In most jobs, the creative director or choreographer has to figure out the language that these other departments are speaking and then, and then talk back to them in their own way that makes sense to get something out of them.

[00:12:38] And Donnie does that.

[00:12:39] So he makes it really easy.

[00:12:41] Working with New Kids is a dream.

[00:12:43] And it's, it's wild because dancing and growing up, I thought that my dream job would end up being like something that's very dance driven.

[00:12:52] Yeah.

[00:12:52] Driven.

[00:12:54] And I didn't grow up like a full New Kids fan.

[00:12:58] My sister did.

[00:12:59] And so because she was the New Kids fan, you know, you're not allowed to like what your older sibling likes.

[00:13:04] So I was like, I don't like them.

[00:13:05] You were like anti.

[00:13:05] I'm finding my own thing.

[00:13:07] Yeah.

[00:13:07] So we find our own things.

[00:13:09] But the job itself has proven that there's a space or place for everybody where you can feel respected, where you can grow within the job, where you can, you know, not have to feel so much anxiety and stress and things.

[00:13:26] You can speak.

[00:13:28] You can communicate clearly.

[00:13:30] You can get paid on time.

[00:13:33] You can be around other people.

[00:13:36] Yeah.

[00:13:36] It's a positive.

[00:13:37] It can be uplifting.

[00:13:38] It doesn't have to be a toxic work environment.

[00:13:40] It can totally be fun because we hear so many things, especially now about what's going on.

[00:13:45] And, and to, you know, to, to know that, you know, and I, I got to work with Jordan Knight back in the day with Give It To You.

[00:13:51] I was in that music video.

[00:13:52] And so to hear that those guys are still that way, you know, and it was fun and it was cool and it was uplifting and it was positive.

[00:13:58] Yes.

[00:13:58] You know, it's not, it doesn't have to be toxic.

[00:14:00] And again, I know I said it at the top of the show, but you know, that fandom, you know, and I'm only, I'm kind of going to get to something from there.

[00:14:07] But that fandom is also seems to be really supportive of you.

[00:14:10] How do you feel like that translates as you, as you kind of now are exploring this other creative side of yourself, which is your show Swallow?

[00:14:17] Cause I want to talk about that too.

[00:14:19] You know, now, now you've done all these things, you've done this big show, this big tour, but now, now you're like, Hey guys, you know, I kind of want to go this way.

[00:14:27] You know, which is completely different from what you've been doing with them.

[00:14:30] Right.

[00:14:31] So how does that, how does like that fandom and that, cause, cause you kind of build a community there too.

[00:14:36] Cause I talk a lot about community here and like supporting each other in that sense.

[00:14:40] How do you feel like that community now is going to be translating to what you're doing next and talk to us about Swallow a little bit too.

[00:14:46] And what, what the concept is behind that.

[00:14:48] Well, um, shout out to the blockheads.

[00:14:51] That's what the new kids fans are called.

[00:14:53] Hashtag blockheads.

[00:14:54] Yes.

[00:14:55] Shout out to the blockheads.

[00:14:56] They are always so nice and supportive of me.

[00:15:00] Sorry to cut you off.

[00:15:01] Actually at that show, there was a little girl holding a sign and maybe I'll plop in the picture.

[00:15:06] I'll see if I can find it.

[00:15:07] Okay.

[00:15:07] There was a little girl holding a sign saying third generation blockhead.

[00:15:11] Yeah.

[00:15:11] And I was like, that's, that's amazing to me.

[00:15:14] I don't, so, so, you know.

[00:15:16] Those, um, pregnant moms were playing new kids while the babies were in the womb, I'm sure.

[00:15:22] So.

[00:15:22] They were like, this kid of mine is going to love what I love.

[00:15:25] That's amazing.

[00:15:26] But you know, back, back to that.

[00:15:28] Sorry to cut you off.

[00:15:28] But they're, um, they're my age and I don't, I don't remember or I forget this along the way because our journeys are different.

[00:15:36] I don't have kids.

[00:15:37] I didn't go that way.

[00:15:38] I'm still in the entertainment industry and I'm still like, um, teaching 18 year olds, seven year olds.

[00:15:43] I'm working all the time, um, in an artistic way that I don't even see age.

[00:15:49] Um, what I do keeps me young because we communicate through movement.

[00:15:53] And then I see the, the new kids, um, fans and I'm like, oh yeah, she's my age.

[00:15:58] They're my age.

[00:15:59] And it's so cool to see, um, them being open to me and being, um, receptive and being kind and supportive for swallow or class videos or dumb videos that I make with the guys.

[00:16:12] Like the, um, he's not gay.

[00:16:13] He's just this.

[00:16:14] I did see that.

[00:16:15] You told me about that one and I did see that.

[00:16:16] And I was like, that's funny.

[00:16:17] But there's another side of me that loves to do comedy and the guys think I'm funny.

[00:16:22] I mean, they think, they think I'm funny when I'm not trying to be funny when I'm just being serious.

[00:16:27] But I know that's the, that's the gift.

[00:16:29] Um, but they let me do these dumb videos.

[00:16:32] The fans love them.

[00:16:33] Um, and even, uh, in New York during swallow, when I put the show on in New York, um, one of the, there was this woman who was there early and I was like, oh, she's just chilling by herself.

[00:16:44] I love New Yorkers.

[00:16:45] They don't care.

[00:16:45] And so I gave her a drink ticket and then at the end I saw her and I was like, what'd you think?

[00:16:49] And she was like, I'm actually a blockhead and I'm here in town for their show at Odyssey.

[00:16:53] And I just wanted to come see your show.

[00:16:55] And it meant the world to me.

[00:16:57] That is amazing.

[00:16:58] Yeah.

[00:16:58] That she came out by herself just to show up and support me by way of them.

[00:17:03] Um, so I, I was chatting with her for a while, but that's where it really counts is that crossover support.

[00:17:09] Um, and, and trust because they don't know what I'm doing.

[00:17:12] And, you know, uh, the, the world of like fans, we have new kids in common or we have dance in common or something, but there are so many other things in real life that we probably don't have in common.

[00:17:23] And we don't let that stop us from supporting each other.

[00:17:26] And that's what I love.

[00:17:27] Even there was this, um, one fan who came to take my class once and, um, she always comments on, um, dance stuff.

[00:17:34] And, um, then when we were at Fenway, I saw her sitting in the seats and I was like, Hey, I remember you.

[00:17:40] And she was like, Oh my God.

[00:17:41] And so I'm always grateful to make a connection with people.

[00:17:46] It's hard sometimes when I'm on the job and someone's like, Kevin, and I can't go that way because I feel responsible getting things done.

[00:17:53] But, uh, people who comment on Instagram, it means more than they know.

[00:17:57] Um, or even crossing over to personal life.

[00:18:00] Like when my mom passed and I have all these, um, beautiful comments from new kids fans by way of, you know, choreography for new kids, they're uplifting my spirits in a personal moment.

[00:18:11] So it goes really far.

[00:18:13] Yeah.

[00:18:13] And my condolences on that for sure.

[00:18:15] Yeah.

[00:18:16] Um, but yeah, I think, you know, building community and being able to have that is definitely a blessing and, and, you know, being grateful for, for the blackheads, um, you know, for sure.

[00:18:26] Um, I think that it's, it says a lot, right?

[00:18:30] Yeah.

[00:18:30] Like it says a lot also to you, I think as a creative, as a person that you can transcend, you can transcend that, right?

[00:18:37] Like, okay, I could be listening to this kind of music or this kind of vibe, but you know, I, I, you know, what you do is still super cool to me and still resonates right for me.

[00:18:46] So that's amazing.

[00:18:47] Um, and I, I wanted to also touch upon, you know, you created a virtual workshop, um, that was offering perspectives and insights to better navigate, you know, people's passions.

[00:18:56] As a career, right.

[00:18:57] What, what, whatever their passions were.

[00:18:58] So you'd have, you created this, you know, panel of self-made entrepreneurs across different fields, um, where viewers could, you know, hear their stories and ask them questions and what their journey and paths were like.

[00:19:10] Um, so, you know, it would give an audience like a closeup look of their favorite artists.

[00:19:16] Can you explain a little bit more about that?

[00:19:18] Is that something that you're still continuing to do?

[00:19:20] Is that, cause I saw it on your website too.

[00:19:22] You know, is that something that you're kind of encouraging?

[00:19:25] Yeah.

[00:19:25] I haven't, I haven't done it in like two years.

[00:19:27] It's called a smart artist.

[00:19:28] Yeah.

[00:19:29] But, um, you know, uh, it goes back to even dancing.

[00:19:33] Um, when I was on tour with, uh, Eve and Ruff writers, I was like, what am I doing?

[00:19:39] Yeah.

[00:19:39] When I was like 20 something.

[00:19:41] What was that like?

[00:19:42] What?

[00:19:43] She just dropped a book too.

[00:19:44] You know, she just, I want to get her book.

[00:19:46] It was always really cool and nice.

[00:19:47] Um, everyone around, but it's still the name and reputation of rough writers in New York and me being gay.

[00:19:52] I was like, I'm just going to keep my head down.

[00:19:55] RIP DMX.

[00:19:55] Yeah.

[00:19:56] Yeah.

[00:19:56] Yeah.

[00:19:56] You know?

[00:19:57] And then, um, I remember one day someone was like, y'all should be grateful to be here as dancers.

[00:20:02] Cause you guys are from the streets.

[00:20:04] And I was like, excuse me.

[00:20:05] Like I'm not from the streets.

[00:20:07] I'm not at all.

[00:20:08] And I don't think that that has anything to do with being less grateful, but just so we're clear, I'm, I choose to be here.

[00:20:15] I don't need to be here.

[00:20:16] I could make money anywhere else.

[00:20:17] So I'd prefer if you could just talk to me like without your frustrations and without your, you know, and it didn't really.

[00:20:25] Did you really say that?

[00:20:25] Yeah.

[00:20:26] But I don't think it went well and went over.

[00:20:28] But then it made me.

[00:20:29] They were like, thank you.

[00:20:30] They were like, shut the fuck up.

[00:20:32] Yeah.

[00:20:33] Yeah.

[00:20:33] But, um, like a lot of times because of the field, the path of like being a hip hop dancer growing up, people would assume that you're this kid who danced his way from wherever.

[00:20:45] And should just be happy to make anything and shouldn't complain or anything.

[00:20:48] And so I would always speak up and say, um, hi, just so you're aware of this and this and this.

[00:20:53] And our contracts say this and we're saying this.

[00:20:55] And I think we also should be considerate of this.

[00:20:57] And sometimes it would backfire and they'd be like, he's doing too much.

[00:21:01] Or sometimes they'd be like, oh, thank you for bringing that to our attention.

[00:21:04] We weren't aware of that.

[00:21:05] Um, and I still do that now for myself with jobs, but, um, I was always smart.

[00:21:11] Um, first and then talented second, I would say, I don't know if being smart as a talent, but I would, I would be, you know, work hard.

[00:21:18] Cause I have videos where I sucked dancing.

[00:21:21] Like I was terrible.

[00:21:23] We all have those videos, Kevin.

[00:21:25] So they all exist.

[00:21:26] Cause it's like, I think if you're doing like science or something, it's all, you know, it's all, um, facts.

[00:21:32] It's there, it's information.

[00:21:33] You're processing it, how you, how you deliver the information back.

[00:21:36] But with the arts, um, at some point you have to let go and be free and trust in it.

[00:21:41] And I would have problems with that, whether it's freestyling or, you know, or just letting go in a certain way.

[00:21:47] Um, because my brain works with like formula and structure.

[00:21:51] So I wanted to show that down the road, a lot of people who are artists have used that type of structure and awareness and, um, book smart to help their art.

[00:22:03] So that's why I wanted to create the smart artists to let people know that it's not just about going for it and being artsy.

[00:22:11] There's a lot of ways to research what's before you, who's next, um, how to talk to people, how to present yourself, what you present yourself like.

[00:22:21] Um, what are you spending the money that you make, um, you know, into your craft?

[00:22:27] How are you doing that?

[00:22:28] Um, how are you, uh, spending your off time?

[00:22:31] How are you being perceived by others?

[00:22:33] There's so much that you can help, um, you and your career that sometimes we don't get trained on because there's no school for how to create boundaries for your art.

[00:22:43] And when you do something you love and it's personal, it could, um, hurt your feelings.

[00:22:48] And that's not really where business is.

[00:22:51] That's where the personal boundaries are.

[00:22:53] So you have to find your own boundaries as you're moving through a world of like, I love what I do, but I get my feelings hurt because I got fired and I poured my heart into that.

[00:23:01] And so there's no education for that and there's no real learning for that.

[00:23:07] So I just wanted to create a panel of people from different areas to, to, to share that all that bullshit that you experience along the way.

[00:23:15] And that's the way everyone does, whether you're a fashion designer or, you know, an, um, astrologer or a singer or anything.

[00:23:22] It's, it's, it's the same, no matter what, um, career or, or journey you take, you're going to face the same challenges you would face in any certain thing.

[00:23:31] So if you can use your tools the right way, um, you can navigate through this weird art artistic pathway that no one's ever told to or encouraged to do, unless you went to like an art school or something.

[00:23:43] Maybe your parents, uh, had an, if your, if your parents had an art background, then they understand that.

[00:23:49] But mine didn't.

[00:23:50] So most people it's like get straight A's, go to college, do something that's for sure and stay, stay on that path.

[00:23:57] Um, so it's, it's scary to navigate something just off passion.

[00:24:02] And that's why I created that.

[00:24:04] Nice.

[00:24:04] And that's great.

[00:24:05] And what I'm hearing you kind of say it even just like kind of for the viewers too, it's, it's about, um, the business side of things.

[00:24:12] Right.

[00:24:12] Because entertain, whether it's entertainment, like you're saying or fashion or whatever, which is still kind of entertainment, but still, um, uh, or NASA, you know, there's still going to be things that come up that might push you into your emotions.

[00:24:25] Right.

[00:24:26] That might push you into it.

[00:24:27] And sometimes you just need to have your head screwed on the right way to deal with whatever comes at you.

[00:24:32] Right.

[00:24:32] Because it could be anything.

[00:24:34] Right.

[00:24:34] And you need to be built for that.

[00:24:36] And so it sounds like you have, your brain works a certain way.

[00:24:39] Right.

[00:24:39] When it has this like structure, um, but on the artsy, which, which you can't be too much that just as like, you can't be too much on the artsy side.

[00:24:48] Where, where's the middle?

[00:24:49] It sounds like it's about balance.

[00:24:51] It is about balance.

[00:24:52] It's always about, uh, that 50, 50 of yin and yang of, uh, productivity, but then also being quiet and letting, uh, inspiration come to you.

[00:25:00] But sometimes when you get going and you're coming up from being poor, you, you don't say no.

[00:25:07] You're not taught to say no.

[00:25:08] You're not taught to take a break for yourself.

[00:25:10] You just keep hustling.

[00:25:11] You keep going.

[00:25:12] And then you're putting out work while you're at zero battery life.

[00:25:16] And the work's not great, but it's getting done.

[00:25:19] Um, and you can get lost in that area of, of hustle and moving nonstop.

[00:25:24] And I got to keep going, keep going.

[00:25:26] And it's really important to like rest.

[00:25:29] And we're not taught how to rest properly.

[00:25:31] And we're not taught like Europeans do it right with their two month vacations.

[00:25:35] And here we are feeling guilty for taking a weekend off.

[00:25:39] First time I went to Spain, we got there.

[00:25:41] We're like, Oh, we'll just, we'll take a little nap.

[00:25:43] We'll get up at five o'clock and we'll go and we'll eat.

[00:25:45] And we go outside and everything shut down.

[00:25:48] And we're like, why is everything close?

[00:25:50] Or like two o'clock, whatever it is.

[00:25:52] Everything was shut down.

[00:25:53] We're like, we're hungry.

[00:25:54] Why?

[00:25:54] They're like, Oh, it's a siesta.

[00:25:56] We're like, right.

[00:25:58] Right.

[00:25:59] And then at nine o'clock at night, everybody's out drinking wine, smoking cigarettes.

[00:26:02] We're like, yes, we're doing it wrong here.

[00:26:05] Take me there.

[00:26:06] Right.

[00:26:06] I should move here.

[00:26:08] Um, but, but yeah, you're right.

[00:26:10] And, and you said something earlier, which was about, you know, just get quiet.

[00:26:13] Are there moments where you find yourself, you know, in those quiet moments where, where

[00:26:19] something comes to you and you're, that's the spark of inspiration.

[00:26:21] So it's like, it's like, and I can't remember the saying, but it's like, I don't want to

[00:26:26] be a human doing.

[00:26:27] I want to be a human being.

[00:26:28] Okay.

[00:26:29] Yeah.

[00:26:30] Yeah.

[00:26:30] It was like something like that.

[00:26:31] I don't know where I got that from.

[00:26:33] I got it from somewhere, but it's something, it's something about being in the stillness.

[00:26:38] Yeah.

[00:26:38] Yeah.

[00:26:39] I mean, honestly, no one really knows what they're doing.

[00:26:42] We're all just kind of like, what do you mean?

[00:26:45] You know, we know nothing.

[00:26:47] We're faking it.

[00:26:48] We've had, I've had like great successes, but that doesn't mean that formula works.

[00:26:53] And I'm not the same person at the time that I've had those.

[00:26:55] And I got to sit down and ask myself, like, what do I want to do?

[00:27:00] Or stop asking myself anything and just sit and listen to music and be in nature.

[00:27:05] And then a song will come to me, a song will, and it'll like be calling me to move to it

[00:27:10] or something.

[00:27:12] Different ideas will come.

[00:27:15] And it's just about like listening to those, where are they coming from?

[00:27:20] Is it from, like, sometimes people say, oh, I had this idea to do this.

[00:27:25] And just recently I've been learning to like, well, where's the idea from?

[00:27:28] And how much more can I get out of wherever this is coming from?

[00:27:32] Is it my ancestors?

[00:27:33] Is it through nature?

[00:27:34] Is it through, like, am I getting all that was meant to be given to me?

[00:27:39] Or am I just being fed a song and then I'm running with it?

[00:27:43] And that's what I used to do.

[00:27:45] But now I'm taking more time to even ask, like, to sit there and see if there's more

[00:27:51] to come through as I'm the muse for whatever or wherever this is coming from.

[00:27:56] A lot of it is music or like the show Swallow or even ideas that don't get brought to life

[00:28:03] for new kids or different jobs.

[00:28:05] It comes from stillness.

[00:28:07] It comes from not trying to be in control of things.

[00:28:11] It comes from being okay with feeling like an imposter or feeling like you're lost or

[00:28:17] feeling like you don't know.

[00:28:19] If you can get to that place and be okay with it, you're going to get refilled without

[00:28:24] learning or without even realizing it.

[00:28:26] But like if you go shopping, you don't find anything.

[00:28:29] But if you go walking around a city when you don't have money, you're going to find all

[00:28:32] these clothes.

[00:28:33] And so if you just sit there and not say, I need to be re-inspired and refueled.

[00:28:38] But if you just sit there and say, I'm lost and I'm just going to go for a walk and I

[00:28:41] don't know if I'm going to turn right or left and I don't know what's on my headphones

[00:28:44] or I'm going to sit outside here and I don't know.

[00:28:47] And I have no expectations of it either.

[00:28:49] A lot of times like miracles happen in those moments.

[00:28:52] And that's where I get a lot of like purpose and refill because so many times I'm like,

[00:29:00] I just want to move to Spain and have dinner at 10 o'clock.

[00:29:03] Go have, yes.

[00:29:04] I don't want to do this anymore.

[00:29:06] Drink some red wine.

[00:29:07] I don't know what the next job is.

[00:29:08] I don't know if I'm still relevant.

[00:29:11] I don't know anything that other people see me as because it's none of my business.

[00:29:15] But I don't know.

[00:29:17] So as long as I can keep doing what I do for the right reasons, I'm out of gratitude,

[00:29:23] out of love, out of passion and make a living off of it.

[00:29:29] It's good enough for me.

[00:29:30] Yeah.

[00:29:31] Do you meditate or like do you do anything like that?

[00:29:34] Like yoga or mantras?

[00:29:36] I love going to hot yoga.

[00:29:37] I love swimming, doing laps.

[00:29:39] And that repetition helps my brain to like release things.

[00:29:44] I love clearing my brain at night.

[00:29:46] One of my friends who, Marsha Pacificar, who was on the Smart Artist, was saying that

[00:29:51] every night the way you brush your teeth, you have to brush your brain

[00:29:54] and get out all the thoughts that have happened for the day because it's meaningless.

[00:29:58] There's still, whether you realize it, they're attaching to you before you go to sleep.

[00:30:01] You're not your thoughts.

[00:30:03] Scrub your head from all the things that happen.

[00:30:05] And I literally will sit there and like I'm scrubbing my brain just the way I brush my teeth.

[00:30:10] And that helps me to like decompress and allow myself to like go into a dream state where

[00:30:18] so much inspiration comes from dreams.

[00:30:20] But as we get older, we can't control how much we sleep and all the things on our mind.

[00:30:26] And we end up like tossing and turning.

[00:30:28] And so I have to practice meditating and clearing my brain out mostly when I wake up and when I go to sleep.

[00:30:35] Yeah.

[00:30:36] And again, a lot of what you just said is about being in a race of your own, right?

[00:30:40] Yeah.

[00:30:41] It's like sometimes we're going to be going up the mountain, down the mountain.

[00:30:45] Sometimes it'll be a plateau.

[00:30:46] Sometimes we'll be sitting there and they'll just be tumbleweeds.

[00:30:48] And I say the same thing almost every episode because it's like how do you stay present

[00:30:53] in those moments without going back to what you said earlier, being in your emotions.

[00:30:58] If you're in the business, whatever business that is.

[00:31:00] Yeah.

[00:31:01] And being in your emotions versus just like kind of staying level headed, right?

[00:31:04] Yeah.

[00:31:05] And staying on course.

[00:31:06] Yeah.

[00:31:07] What do you find, you know, and as I kind of start bringing this in and bringing this

[00:31:10] in full circle, you know, what do you find for you that keeps you in a race of your own,

[00:31:15] you know, and in those moments?

[00:31:17] Like I know you just kind of said a lot of that, but if there was one thing you could tell

[00:31:20] an upcoming artist, whether it's a choreographer, somebody wanting to go to NASA, you know,

[00:31:26] what architecture, you know, what would be something that you would tell them that you

[00:31:31] would say, you know, here's some advice, you know, and staying the course in that sense.

[00:31:37] Um, I think, well, I think as you get older or as you get richer or as you get more successful,

[00:31:46] um, it's dangerous because we live in like a bubble of what works for us.

[00:31:52] You can tell when like your friend stopped taking risk and their hairstyle stays the same

[00:31:59] forever and their wardrobe, like who's still dressing, you know, from nineties and won't

[00:32:04] ever give it away. I mean, it's back now, but, um, it's dangerous to kind of live in your own head

[00:32:12] and always think that you're right. And in a sense you are, and your, your feelings are all valid, but

[00:32:17] I'm always on this never ending journey of trying to be the observer of myself, um, instead of connecting

[00:32:24] to my thoughts or, um, I'm always trying to figure out if it's my instincts or if, uh, if it's my ego

[00:32:31] and which one is talking at that point. And I'm often telling myself, like, if I'm mad or emotional

[00:32:38] or something like, I'm not my thoughts, these aren't my, like, this isn't me. I'm not my thoughts.

[00:32:42] And I have to remind myself to be the observer of what I'm feeling. Cause if I can be the observer,

[00:32:47] I can control my emotions better. And it's a never ending journey. Cause you're always changing

[00:32:51] and growing. Um, and sure you could just pop off and curse somebody out, but it, it, it, it,

[00:32:57] you know, that the harder thing for you is to change yourself. So I'm always trying to at least

[00:33:03] work on that as I'm growing and moving through this weird career of, of, uh, doing what I love

[00:33:09] for a living. But it's hard because, um, if you've gotten yourself to a certain point, like a mom who's

[00:33:16] raised kids by herself, she's done all that by herself. You can't tell her she didn't do anything

[00:33:20] wrong, but also someone, she has to listen to somebody who says, Hey, you could be more open this.

[00:33:26] You could be more aware of this. Um, and it's hard as we get older, we don't want to listen to

[00:33:31] people. Or if you're rich, no one's telling you no, or if you're successful, you're like,

[00:33:36] I got myself this far who, why should I be listening to anybody else? But sometimes when you're listening

[00:33:41] to yourself, you could be misled by your ego or misled by your thoughts. So I'm trying really hard

[00:33:47] these days to be the observer of myself and not be just like attaching to, you know, someone who

[00:33:55] it's their fault. It's their, their mistake. I could just say, Hey, what's wrong with you? Or

[00:33:59] why didn't you say, excuse me? Or sorry. But now I'm at a place where I'm like, Oh, I'm not going to

[00:34:04] let myself get mad for their mistake. Also. I don't know what they're going through. And this could be

[00:34:09] a triggering moment for them where all of a sudden they lose it from me having expectations of somebody

[00:34:15] messing up that they should say, sorry. So I'm like, let me just pull this back into myself,

[00:34:19] keep going. So it's really hard to do that. Um, but that's where I'm at is, is letting people tell me,

[00:34:25] Hey, Kevin, you're off. Hey, Kevin, that's not that you're, you're being what, what you sound

[00:34:30] like right now. You sound rude or what you're saying is not what you're intending. And I'm like,

[00:34:34] Oh shit. I have to watch myself as I, as I keep going through this. I can't just, um, assume that

[00:34:40] everyone knows what I'm trying to say. I can't just say whatever's on my head. I have to actually

[00:34:45] process it and think about it. And I also just got to check myself that I'm not letting my ego take

[00:34:51] over, take the wheel and then I'm burning bridges. So I gotta, yeah. Yeah. It's just sounds like to me

[00:34:58] like in the silence, right? So in that being silent in the silence, there's something about,

[00:35:09] we've been on this thread about like in the silence you hear your, it's kind of like, that's when you

[00:35:13] hear your ego. But what that boils down to, which I've been finding because it's been difficult for

[00:35:18] me too, is discipline. Like, like it's because it's even a discipline to just be quiet. Yeah.

[00:35:24] Yeah. You know what I mean? Because there's so many distractions. Yeah. Like I can easily get on my

[00:35:29] phone and order food. Yeah. Order something on Amazon. Yeah. Order, like listen to music, watch a music

[00:35:36] video, listen to a podcast. Like, like it's just so easily to get to, you know, easily to get

[00:35:41] distracted. Yeah. It's, it, it, it's a discipline to just be quiet. Yeah. It's a discipline. I,

[00:35:49] someone said that we are most ourselves when we're quiet. Like we are most, our most like true selves.

[00:35:56] So sometimes when I get overwhelmed with these jobs or something, I just sit still for a second

[00:36:01] and sit there and look around. And then I start to think, oh, I can, I know where I'm at right now.

[00:36:05] I'm not connected to their chaotic energy. I'm not this, I'm not that. Oh, okay. I'm fine.

[00:36:10] Right. But sitting down without a phone, without anything, or even if it is chaotic,

[00:36:16] just sitting there in the chaos, you can find yourself again and align real quick.

[00:36:22] Nice.

[00:36:22] Or when people are like shouting and you're supposed to come up with a solution or they're

[00:36:25] waiting for you to talk, just staying quiet through all of that is kind of gangster.

[00:36:30] Yeah.

[00:36:30] Hey, are you going to answer? And you're like.

[00:36:33] That's a t-shirt. Staying quiet is gangster.

[00:36:37] Yeah. Cause the real smart people will just be like, mm-hmm.

[00:36:40] Staying quiet is gangster.

[00:36:41] It's the, it's the ones who are like, um, you know, it's, it's, it's like a ticking, uh,

[00:36:46] grenade. And then they're like, well, first of all, ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:36:50] Yeah. So I'm just learning to be like, hmm.

[00:36:52] And just take it in, soak it in, see what that feels like.

[00:36:55] And then step away, just make your answer or tell your answer, say your answer later.

[00:36:59] Yeah. I've seen cool, really cool people when, when shit's hitting the fan that they say, excuse

[00:37:03] me real quick. And then they walk away. I'm like, I love them. That's my new move.

[00:37:08] You're like, okay.

[00:37:10] Yeah.

[00:37:10] Thanks for the notes. Well, Kevin, thank you so much for being here. I like, I, I could keep

[00:37:17] going and I could, I could really just.

[00:37:21] Over drinks.

[00:37:22] Oh my God.

[00:37:23] Why don't we have alcohol here? You would get more out of everybody.

[00:37:28] Nope. Taken. Thanks, Kevin. I will sit in silence.

[00:37:32] Alcohol sponsors, where are you at?

[00:37:34] Shut up. I don't have enough, I don't have enough subscribers yet.

[00:37:37] So.

[00:37:38] Well, you will if you start getting people drunk.

[00:37:40] You think? Is that what I should do? Should I just, like, just get people drunk?

[00:37:44] Yeah.

[00:37:45] I mean, I guess.

[00:37:47] Consensually.

[00:37:49] Consensually. I, I do want to, this one might not, but whatever. I do want to have one where

[00:37:54] we can smoke. Yeah. You know, I don't know how great the conversation will be, but yeah.

[00:37:59] Oh my God. I think I just wants, I just want to have.

[00:38:02] At least for me, I'll be lost.

[00:38:03] You'll just be like, what are we talking about?

[00:38:05] Yeah.

[00:38:05] A gummy? Even if you did like a gummy?

[00:38:07] Mm-hmm.

[00:38:08] Really?

[00:38:08] Yeah. I'll get lost. I'll just be quiet and giggle.

[00:38:11] Are you serious?

[00:38:11] But if that's what the viewers want, I'm here for it.

[00:38:16] It's not COVID. I'm coughing, but it's not COVID.

[00:38:19] Because you've been smoking?

[00:38:23] Shh. Um, no. I mean, I just, maybe I should.

[00:38:27] Yeah. Why not?

[00:38:29] Because I haven't, I kind of cut back on drinking.

[00:38:31] I love that Seth Meyers one where he takes shots with people.

[00:38:36] Ooh.

[00:38:37] Like with Rihanna or whatever.

[00:38:38] Yeah.

[00:38:38] I'm going for one of those.

[00:38:39] Okay. So will you promise to come back and do an episode?

[00:38:42] So you can be like, either take a shot or tell me which new kids is your least favorite.

[00:38:47] And then I'll be like, oh my God. Q&A. New kids Q&A.

[00:38:51] You got to study those.

[00:38:52] I do.

[00:38:52] The Seth Meyers ones are really good. Yeah.

[00:38:54] Oh, I, okay. Well, will you promise to come back and do another episode if we do like a drinking one?

[00:39:00] I don't even know that we're doing an episode. I'm just talking to you.

[00:39:03] And I have glasses on because I've been a wreck lately and I'm tired.

[00:39:07] And it's okay.

[00:39:07] Not because I think I'm famous.

[00:39:09] No. And thank you for coming out. And like, cause I wasn't, you know, I wasn't sure about like asking you. I know what you're going through. You're going through a lot right now.

[00:39:16] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:16] So, but I just was like, well, maybe this will cheer him up a little bit.

[00:39:19] Yeah. It's fun.

[00:39:19] Yeah. It has. Thank you.

[00:39:21] Yeah. And I'm glad it was conversational because that was the point. That's what I was hoping to do.

[00:39:26] So thank you so much for sharing everything that you've shared, all your insight. I'm really excited to have you here. I'm going to take you up on bringing you back and doing like a NKOTB shots.

[00:39:39] Yeah.

[00:39:39] Shots. Q&A. No, but thank you so much, Kevin. And, you know, we didn't even, we didn't even talk a lot about Swallow, you know, as much.

[00:39:47] So where can people find you? Where, what's up with Swallow next? And where can people find you?

[00:39:51] It's really easy. So when I had a pager in like seventh grade.

[00:39:56] A two way? A two way?

[00:39:57] No, like, like, yeah, like a real old school pager. Like when it was, like my mom thought it was just for drug dealers. But five, six was a K and an M or is a K and an M on a phone.

[00:40:06] So I'd always put five, six. And then later I put KMahar56. So KMahar56 is the handle for most or all things for me. So Instagram or I don't even know if it's on TikTok, but I have you got served.

[00:40:19] And then, like, even emails. So I just try and keep it KMahar56. But the 5-6 is from old school pager days.

[00:40:26] Nice.

[00:40:26] So that people would know it was me texting them.

[00:40:28] Nice.

[00:40:28] Or messaging them.

[00:40:29] Work. We need to bring pagers back.

[00:40:31] Yeah.

[00:40:31] Maybe that's what we need to do.

[00:40:33] Beepers.

[00:40:34] Beepers. Two ways. But thank you so much, Kevin. And again, this is Virgie Rodriguez for A Race of Your Own. Remember to subscribe and leave your comments down below. Let us know what you thought about this episode and stay tuned. Peace.

[00:40:49] Thank you.