Kevin Stea Living His Truth Creating Value & Having Perserverence S1E7

[00:00:00] I get it maybe. Hi, hello. Hi, welcome. Hi. Am I camera one? Yes, you're right there. That's your camera. Welcome. Hi, I'm Vergi Rodriguez and this is A Race Of Your Own where we talk about how inspiration leads to resilience. And today's guest, who I love, has worked with tons of artists under the sun. I mean he's a dancer, he's a choreographer, he's a everything. You know, he's worked with artists like Prince, Ricky Martin, Janet Jackson, George Michael, David Bowie, Celine

[00:00:29] Dion, Lady Gaga, Britney Spears, Cher, Tony Bennett, Will.i.am, Jane's Addiction. He's worked on a variety of TV shows and films like one of my favorite films of all time, Newsies, directed by one of my favorite people in the world, Kenny Ortega. TV shows like Melrose Place, movies like Sister Act 2, Back in the Habit, Showgirls, The Birdcage, Across the Universe, Charlie's Angels, TV show Friends, Austin Powers and Goldmember 13, Going on 30, Rant, Scrubs and Dancing with the Stars. And we even got to work together on a show called Motown Live, Many Moons,

[00:01:00] Mr. Kevin Stey. Welcome. Hello, hello, hello. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here, Kevin. I'm excited. I love, I love what this is about. Yes, yes. And I love having you here and I know, you know, you have so much going on and there's always so many things that you're working on, so many things that you're doing. You're just like this fabulous person and you always have this really upbeat personality. Thank you. And demeanor. Thank you. And you're always all about uplifting.

[00:01:28] I find my work is my joy and my work family is my family. So what's not to be uplifting about? Yeah, yeah. I'm so happy around the people that I work with and the jobs that I get to do and yeah.

[00:01:43] Yeah. And, you know, we, you know, for me, I know, you know, as a dancer and growing up watching popular culture stuff, you know, you were one of those dancers that I was like, oh my God, he's so cool. Like, he's just so cool. And he's just so hot.

[00:02:03] Meanwhile, I'm the biggest nerd in history. Like backpack carrying Dungeons and Dragons nerd with comic books.

[00:02:09] Dungeons and Dragons has been such a freaking topic for me this last few weeks.

[00:02:15] It was another guest. We talked about Dungeons and Dragons and then there's some like co-workers I was talking to. Dungeons and Dragons. It has been a theme. Maybe I need to explore Dungeons and Dragons. I don't know.

[00:02:25] It's kind of the base of everything fantasy. I mean, besides like Lord of the Rings and things like that. But you're talking about video game, right? No, I'm talking about Dungeons and Dragons, the like the like role playing dice. Yeah. With a dungeon master and all of that nerdiness.

[00:02:39] Okay. So not so much the video game. No, I never even played the video game. This is pre video game. I was there at the dawn of video games. I played Pong. Let's put it that way. I remember going, ooh, Pong. Let's play Pong.

[00:02:51] I was talking to somebody about video games and I said, I'm like, Miss Pac-Man? Pac-Man. That's it.

[00:02:57] Like I'm like. Asteroids. No, I don't know. Galaga, Defender, Joust. No. No, I was like Miss Pac-Man? Pac-Man. That's it.

[00:03:06] Like it was like those two. I didn't even play Donkey Kong. Like that was, I didn't even do that. Donkey Kong. I've never did Donkey Kong. I didn't do Mario Brothers, whatever.

[00:03:15] But to that point. And I remember seeing you, you know, working with Madonna in the Blonde Ambition tour, you know, your assistant choreographer on that tour, right?

[00:03:27] I don't have all my notes here because I don't because that's what happens sometimes. We misplace our notes. But I know that that was one of the notes that I took.

[00:03:36] And I remember that movie, Truth or Dare, coming out and her kind of for me growing up being one of the first artists at that time to really kind of show her dancers.

[00:03:47] Or really respect and appreciate her dancers in a way that like you are, you are individuals.

[00:03:53] You're part of this.

[00:03:54] You're individuals.

[00:03:54] Right. But you're part of my journey here that I want to kind of encapsulate in this film.

[00:03:59] And, you know, Voguing, you know, was so big at that time.

[00:04:03] And I was in New York at that time and not really able to go to clubs yet.

[00:04:07] I was a little too young.

[00:04:08] But, you know, that was such a big part of the culture, especially being, you know, Latina growing up in New York City.

[00:04:15] That was balls was a thing.

[00:04:17] It still is.

[00:04:18] You know what I mean?

[00:04:19] It was it's it's like a part of the culture there, especially for dancers.

[00:04:23] Right.

[00:04:26] And you have maintained a career in the industry.

[00:04:30] Right.

[00:04:30] From that, not only as a dancer, as a choreographer, as a model, as a singer, as an actor.

[00:04:38] I could probably sit here and list all the commercials you were in, all the tours you were in.

[00:04:45] You know, what to you has kind of led for your resilience right through this?

[00:04:51] Because that journey with Madonna was already just so high level.

[00:04:55] And you were you were a baby, right?

[00:04:56] I was a baby.

[00:04:58] That was my first tour.

[00:04:59] I didn't even know what being associate choreographer was.

[00:05:02] I didn't know what meant to be an assistant.

[00:05:04] I didn't even I'd never been in that world.

[00:05:10] I obviously was given a very high bar very early on.

[00:05:14] Yeah.

[00:05:14] Yeah.

[00:05:16] I think.

[00:05:18] Resilience is something you have to create for yourself, and it's something it's about the context in which you go to work and approach.

[00:05:27] Even the word work is weird.

[00:05:29] Approach your art and your craft.

[00:05:31] I don't even want to call it work.

[00:05:33] Because it's not work.

[00:05:34] It's an opportunity to get to express yourself more than anything.

[00:05:39] And that's why I think I'm not tied necessarily to the money of it.

[00:05:42] Like, yes, it's important.

[00:05:43] And yes, I stand for dancers' rights and rates.

[00:05:45] And I'm always fighting for that with Dancers Alliance and SAG-AFTRA.

[00:05:49] But ultimately, it's about the craft.

[00:05:54] It's about what you're doing.

[00:05:56] And once you come at it from a space of value rather than money, then you'll always win.

[00:06:07] Because then value is up to you.

[00:06:10] Value is up to you.

[00:06:11] Like, a check can come and go.

[00:06:13] A check can come from wherever.

[00:06:14] But value is something you create out of whatever you're doing.

[00:06:17] You could be on a crappy gig.

[00:06:18] Well, crappy again.

[00:06:20] That's, you know, that's your own opinion of it.

[00:06:22] But you can be on a challenging gig.

[00:06:27] Let's be politically correct here.

[00:06:28] You can be on a challenging gig.

[00:06:29] Right.

[00:06:30] And still come out triumphantly new and evolved and learn so much.

[00:06:37] Even if it's learning so much about what you're willing to put up with or not.

[00:06:40] Or what you're willing to stand up for.

[00:06:42] What you're willing to, how far you're willing to go for the shot or the gig or for others.

[00:06:50] And even in the weirdest spaces, there's always something to learn.

[00:06:54] Whether it's a cautionary tale or if it's like, wow, I'm watching this director of photography who's just astonishing and watching what he's doing.

[00:07:02] Because it's not just about you.

[00:07:04] In this world, I think the most successful people bring their lives to their art and to their work and observe everyone around them.

[00:07:15] Because we're all artists.

[00:07:16] Like the whole crew.

[00:07:18] They're all artists.

[00:07:20] And everyone's doing something spectacular.

[00:07:23] And there's always, you can watch them and just be amazed at like, you know, their attention to detail.

[00:07:30] If I'm bored on a gig, which happens, not a lot.

[00:07:35] It happens.

[00:07:36] It happens.

[00:07:36] It happens.

[00:07:37] But I play games with myself.

[00:07:38] Right.

[00:07:39] And I make it a game.

[00:07:40] So it's not work.

[00:07:41] It's a game.

[00:07:42] I will sometimes play get the shot.

[00:07:45] Right.

[00:07:46] Like if I'm here, I'm not in the shot.

[00:07:48] But if I'm here, I'm in the shot.

[00:07:52] Right.

[00:07:52] If I'm here, I'm right behind somebody.

[00:07:53] But if I'm up here, check out the Gap.

[00:07:56] Everybody in leather commercial.

[00:07:59] Which was back.

[00:07:59] The singing ones.

[00:08:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:08:01] Pedro shot them.

[00:08:02] And I was in far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far back.

[00:08:05] Like you can just see like a pin, a speck, a speck of my head.

[00:08:09] What you'll really see in the final edit is you'll see this long shot of everybody.

[00:08:13] And then you'll see me.

[00:08:15] You can't even tell who I am.

[00:08:16] But in the back, you'll see me go like this.

[00:08:18] Just like up on my toes.

[00:08:20] You're like, hi.

[00:08:20] Hi.

[00:08:22] Like it's a game to me.

[00:08:23] It's fine.

[00:08:23] It's like, okay, I'm on my tippy.

[00:08:24] I was in high releve in the back.

[00:08:26] Just trying to get.

[00:08:27] Yeah, I'm trying to get the shot.

[00:08:29] I can't quite see the camera, but there I am.

[00:08:30] Right.

[00:08:31] Or I'll do it with partners.

[00:08:32] If we're partnering or something, I'll like, I'll spin around.

[00:08:34] And I'll whisper in their ear like, dip now.

[00:08:36] There's the camera.

[00:08:37] And just so they're aware of camera.

[00:08:38] Right as the camera passes, the hair swoops and you get the face shot.

[00:08:42] You get the shot.

[00:08:43] Yeah.

[00:08:43] But I'll tell my partners and things as it's happening.

[00:08:45] And I'll tell them it's a game and like, let's play.

[00:08:47] Right.

[00:08:47] Right.

[00:08:48] Like camera to your left.

[00:08:49] Yeah.

[00:08:49] Camera to your left.

[00:08:49] Let's go.

[00:08:50] Go.

[00:08:50] Or I'll always check the monitor to see what the frame is.

[00:08:55] So I go, oh, I can make the shot better by being in this section of the frame.

[00:08:59] This will balance it out.

[00:09:00] So back to resilience, part of what's important is recreating your experience.

[00:09:07] So it's not a chore.

[00:09:10] It's a game.

[00:09:11] It's all play.

[00:09:13] Right.

[00:09:14] And when I forget that it's play is when I start getting, you know, I'm not being treated correctly.

[00:09:20] I'm a complainant.

[00:09:22] I need to.

[00:09:22] I want this.

[00:09:23] I want that.

[00:09:24] And it's like, well, no, I'm on the job.

[00:09:25] I'm going to give 100%.

[00:09:26] I've chosen to be here.

[00:09:28] The circumstances are the circumstances.

[00:09:30] And I can still be a stand for teamwork and stand up for our rights in the context of teamwork for everybody.

[00:09:39] So rather than complaining, I will, you know, bring up situations in a more constructive way that, hey, for all of us to work together well, we should do ABCDE.

[00:09:51] Yeah.

[00:09:51] Or this might be more empowering for us.

[00:09:53] Which is great.

[00:09:54] Or safer.

[00:09:55] Safer.

[00:09:56] Empowering.

[00:09:56] Empowering is a great word.

[00:09:57] But and that's great because it just it shows the level of support.

[00:10:02] Yes.

[00:10:03] Right.

[00:10:03] Because we're all in it together.

[00:10:04] Everybody wants a good product.

[00:10:05] Everybody wants to succeed.

[00:10:06] We are.

[00:10:07] And you've worked with like some pretty high level names.

[00:10:12] Right.

[00:10:13] Pretty well known names throughout your career.

[00:10:15] A few.

[00:10:17] And that must also say something about your work ethic, which is what you're talking about.

[00:10:22] Right.

[00:10:22] Right.

[00:10:22] Like why people would bring you back, why people would even refer you to a job, why someone would even think, yes, associate, you know, associate director or associate choreographer would be great.

[00:10:33] You know, Kevin would be great for this.

[00:10:36] Because, you know, and if there's something that I've seen, you've always you're very inclusive in that sense.

[00:10:42] Right.

[00:10:42] So when when whether it's and we didn't even work a lot together.

[00:10:46] But every time I've seen you, it's always been that consistent level of interaction and of love and, you know, community.

[00:10:56] Yeah.

[00:10:57] Right.

[00:10:59] You also worked on a film that came out, which was what was the title of the documentary that was like the documentary.

[00:11:06] Strike a pose.

[00:11:06] Strike a pose.

[00:11:07] I was going to say pose, but I knew that that was the wrong title.

[00:11:10] You know, which seemed to be really received really, really well.

[00:11:14] Yes.

[00:11:14] What was can you explain a little bit more about that and what that was like?

[00:11:18] Because that's you reliving a moment of like and it was impactful when you guys did Truth or Dare.

[00:11:27] I think to me it set the tone.

[00:11:30] It was like one of the first movies that set the tone.

[00:11:32] Yeah.

[00:11:33] And you guys, again, for me watching you guys dance and be at Madonna.

[00:11:38] I mean, to this day, I don't care what anybody says.

[00:11:41] Because that VMA performance of Vogue, the Marie Antoinette, it's like nothing compares.

[00:11:52] I don't care what anybody says.

[00:11:53] That's top of the line.

[00:11:55] That was she.

[00:11:55] She wasn't holding one.

[00:11:56] She wasn't holding one.

[00:11:56] She was lip syncing.

[00:11:58] Right, right, right.

[00:11:58] But which is fine.

[00:11:59] It's a VMA.

[00:12:00] But that particular performance to me is just so top tier.

[00:12:06] And you guys were all on it.

[00:12:08] You guys were just like hating it.

[00:12:10] We got to be ourselves and characters.

[00:12:12] And we knew who you were as dancers.

[00:12:14] That's Kevin.

[00:12:16] That's, you know, Carlton.

[00:12:18] Jose.

[00:12:19] Yeah, and Jose.

[00:12:20] And some of them were New Yorkers in the club dance scene.

[00:12:24] So we knew who they were, you know.

[00:12:28] It was just so impactful at the time.

[00:12:31] And even just as a dancer looking up to other dancers and being like, oh my God, you know,

[00:12:36] I want to do that.

[00:12:37] I want to dance for Madonna.

[00:12:38] I want to, you know, do music videos.

[00:12:40] That's so cool.

[00:12:41] I think the most surprising thing that came out of doing Strike a Pose, because at first

[00:12:45] I was really nervous about it.

[00:12:46] I was hesitant.

[00:12:47] I was reserved because, you know, there's a few reasons that are long, much more winded.

[00:12:53] But we had kind of left that in our past.

[00:12:59] And I certainly had really left it in my past.

[00:13:01] I took it off my resume.

[00:13:02] I wasn't using it.

[00:13:03] I didn't talk about it.

[00:13:04] I wasn't, you know, I was never talking about that as my career or as, you know, like that's

[00:13:09] my claim to fame.

[00:13:10] I never used that like that.

[00:13:11] Right.

[00:13:11] And when we saw the movie in the theater for the first time was when I finally realized,

[00:13:20] oh, this has impacted people worldwide.

[00:13:22] And it's not about, I guess I always thought it was, oh, it's about her.

[00:13:27] It's about Madonna, whatever.

[00:13:28] You know, she's, one more person's going to ask me about her and what she has for breakfast,

[00:13:32] as Lewis always says.

[00:13:33] And I realized, oh, this is more about us representing and giving people a chance to

[00:13:43] see that there's a life outside of whatever their life is right now in a space that's more

[00:13:48] accepting, that's more celebratory, that's where you can be, I think I said this in the

[00:13:52] movie, where you can be happy and gay.

[00:13:55] Right.

[00:13:56] And successful and loving life and not have it be something to hide.

[00:14:03] And that saved people's lives.

[00:14:04] And I never looked at, I never looked at my, my dance core as something that saved lives

[00:14:12] by just being freely myself.

[00:14:14] Did that feel like a weight you were carrying?

[00:14:16] Did that feel like once you realized that, did you realize that that was, because a lot

[00:14:20] of what I talk about too is like purpose.

[00:14:22] Right.

[00:14:22] And so if, you know, somebody is going through something and they look at you or they watch

[00:14:26] that movie or they whatever, and they see like, he just gave me a second chance at life,

[00:14:31] so to speak.

[00:14:32] I mean, I wouldn't say it's a weight.

[00:14:33] I would just say I, I acknowledge and realize what an extraordinary honor that is to have

[00:14:38] had that impact on people.

[00:14:40] Right.

[00:14:40] And I think I started hearing, I was getting compliments for years about Madonna.

[00:14:44] Years, years, years.

[00:14:45] You know, in the work world, outside the work world, whatever.

[00:14:47] And it was always like for myself, oh, that's just a Madonna fan complimenting Madonna.

[00:14:53] And for the first time I, I was like, oh, I have to recontextualize every single comment

[00:14:57] I've ever gotten over my whole career and life.

[00:14:59] Well, saying, coming up to me and saying that I made a difference for them.

[00:15:02] I loved you in that blah, blah, blah.

[00:15:03] And you changed my life.

[00:15:05] And like, I always just dismissed it.

[00:15:07] Like, oh, Madonna changed your life.

[00:15:08] Well, yes, she did.

[00:15:09] She did.

[00:15:10] But I had to really kind of go, oh, those were aimed at me.

[00:15:14] It's almost like you gave away your power in that sense.

[00:15:16] Because you were like, oh, it's about, and again, maybe that's like a dancer thing because

[00:15:20] we're so used to working with artists and we're always like behind the artist, right?

[00:15:24] That when it was like, it's about you stepping into your own purpose, your own power, that

[00:15:29] was a different feeling.

[00:15:30] I got to adjust my listening.

[00:15:31] Yeah.

[00:15:31] And I realized how powerful it is to affect your own listening.

[00:15:35] Like, we are in charge of our listening, of how people come to us, what we hear.

[00:15:40] You know, what we hear is, again, that's another space to be resilient in.

[00:15:45] How we hear is our reality.

[00:15:50] And usually it has nothing to do with us.

[00:15:52] Nothing at all.

[00:15:53] And I take that, that into my world of auditions and critiques and criticisms.

[00:16:01] Criticisms.

[00:16:02] There's no real such thing.

[00:16:04] I mean, there's just, there's guidance and there's notes and missed opportunities is

[00:16:09] what I call them.

[00:16:10] There's not, it's not criticism.

[00:16:11] Criticism is what it seems like and it has a negative thing.

[00:16:13] But I've had to adjust my, my listening to take everything as an opportunity.

[00:16:18] I don't, I don't always succeed, but that's the map.

[00:16:22] That's the roadmap.

[00:16:24] Like, even when I'm upset about something, I can flip back later and go, okay, what's,

[00:16:29] what's the lesson here?

[00:16:30] Like even being, down to class.

[00:16:33] When I'm frustrated in class, I don't want to be here.

[00:16:34] I don't want to be here.

[00:16:36] Well, who I am in class is who I am in life.

[00:16:38] I don't necessarily want to be in that space, but I know that there's something on the other

[00:16:42] side, other side of value.

[00:16:44] I know that the process itself has value.

[00:16:46] I know that my stamina and my commitment and my willpower are all related here to who

[00:16:53] I am out there.

[00:16:54] And where's my, where am I being unstoppable?

[00:16:56] Where am I being stoppable?

[00:16:57] Where am I being, where am I giving my all or where am I just giving up?

[00:17:03] So you're stopping and like quitting on yourself if you were to do that, right?

[00:17:07] Like looking at it from that.

[00:17:07] I look at it as a bigger, I put it in a bigger context.

[00:17:10] Like it's like little things, you know, I talk about, um, you know, people, uh, friends

[00:17:16] of mine that are in the program there.

[00:17:18] Sometimes there's a mindset where they give themselves permission to drugs or relapse,

[00:17:23] like just in like, Oh, I deserve it.

[00:17:25] Right.

[00:17:25] It's, this is just fine.

[00:17:26] And it's like, it, it seems like it's just related to drugs, but it, it completely, that

[00:17:31] pattern of thinking completely translates with cigarettes or coffee, sugar.

[00:17:37] Oh, I can, I'll just have this extra cookie.

[00:17:39] Um, I'll, I'll just one more pack.

[00:17:41] That same process of thinking is what kind of lets you get away with everything.

[00:17:45] And I feel like in an addicted personality, like that really gets you in trouble.

[00:17:50] So yeah.

[00:17:52] No, no, no, no, no.

[00:17:53] I get that, you know?

[00:17:54] And I, I just, you know, sometimes we're like put in these situations as such a blessing,

[00:18:00] you know, to work with top tier artists and these, you know, front facing people.

[00:18:05] And sometimes realizing what our purpose in that is, is also just as impactful.

[00:18:14] Right.

[00:18:15] Um, you know, having our, our voices heard.

[00:18:20] Well, voices, that's such a specific thing too.

[00:18:23] That's wonderful.

[00:18:23] I mean, this is wonderful.

[00:18:25] Right.

[00:18:25] Dancers don't get to speak very often.

[00:18:29] We don't talk a lot.

[00:18:30] We don't talk a lot, but we do have a lot to say and we are thinking a lot.

[00:18:33] We're not just bodies.

[00:18:34] Then people dismiss us very easily as just, Oh, this, this, how over there that's thoughty

[00:18:39] over there.

[00:18:40] Right.

[00:18:40] Right.

[00:18:41] Right.

[00:18:41] Right.

[00:18:42] And, and, and, uh, I was talking about this with another guest, which was basically, you

[00:18:47] know, the state of the industry where we're at, where we're in.

[00:18:51] Right.

[00:18:51] You know, I grew up in the hip hop space and, and working with a ton of great and fantastic

[00:18:57] artists and to see where it's at now is, you know, it's disheartening and, and it really

[00:19:03] is because it breaks my heart.

[00:19:04] It really does.

[00:19:06] Um, and it, it shouldn't be that way.

[00:19:09] It really shouldn't.

[00:19:10] There's a lot of us that have worked hard.

[00:19:12] There's a lot of us that have worked with amazing people through the years that a lot

[00:19:15] of us that have just met some pretty amazing people in it.

[00:19:18] And it sucks that, you know, it has turned into this space that I don't feel like we were

[00:19:28] in that space.

[00:19:28] And even, so again, even going back to truth or dare.

[00:19:31] And again, I'm using that just as an example of what her big, um, kind of through line

[00:19:38] was with that, which was like, keep, keep it together.

[00:19:42] You know, that's the song that keeps coming up and, you know, you and I interact with each

[00:19:48] other that way.

[00:19:48] I've seen you interact with other people that way.

[00:19:50] And there's just so much brokenness out there.

[00:19:53] Yeah.

[00:19:53] You know, I love that Madonna's message was that.

[00:19:57] And I think you exemplify that.

[00:19:59] And now you carry that through.

[00:20:01] Is that all you?

[00:20:01] No.

[00:20:03] Right.

[00:20:03] But it's a part of you.

[00:20:04] But you're, to me, you represent that.

[00:20:07] Yeah.

[00:20:07] Because that's what it meant to me back then.

[00:20:10] Right.

[00:20:10] I mean, I never thought of myself as having mentors because it wasn't like I had somebody,

[00:20:14] you know, helping me study.

[00:20:16] Leading you the way.

[00:20:16] Right.

[00:20:16] But when I look now, I'm like, oh yeah, of course.

[00:20:19] Vince Patterson, Kenny Ortega, Michael Peters, Marguerite Derricks, Jamie King, you know.

[00:20:24] I live for Jamie King.

[00:20:25] Madonna, Michael Jackson, they were all mentors.

[00:20:27] Like I, they really did give me the platform, the plan.

[00:20:33] Like I could see how they worked and they were right there with me.

[00:20:36] And they, if I didn't know something, especially Vince, if I didn't know something, he would just

[00:20:40] gently like.

[00:20:41] Vince, yeah.

[00:20:42] Guide me this way.

[00:20:43] Like, so my eyes, I'm through those lenses.

[00:20:47] Right.

[00:20:47] And those are some fantastic Vince Patterson.

[00:20:49] Those are some good lenses.

[00:20:50] Fantastic lenses.

[00:20:51] Marguerite Derricks is fair, sunny.

[00:20:54] Jamie King.

[00:20:54] Oh my God.

[00:20:55] Fair.

[00:20:55] I just was out with Vince Patterson at the Thriller event downtown.

[00:20:59] Yeah.

[00:20:59] Prince Jackson's Heal Foundation event.

[00:21:03] Nice.

[00:21:04] And we, it was a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful evening.

[00:21:08] Yeah.

[00:21:08] There was a moment at the end with dance though, of course, and we all have opinions about

[00:21:11] dance.

[00:21:12] And like, and there was a, there was a section where there was like, they were putting on

[00:21:15] these jackets and it was like, it wasn't really planned out.

[00:21:18] And, and, and Vince and I both, when we walked outside, we were like, the jacket.

[00:21:21] We both were like, we all had the same notes.

[00:21:24] Like this could have done.

[00:21:25] We were thinking about how we could have made it work and made it faster and made it more

[00:21:29] timing and popping.

[00:21:30] Right.

[00:21:31] And then this should have been that we were literally back and forth with our notes.

[00:21:34] And I'm like, we have the exact same ideas.

[00:21:35] I'm like, that's because I'm, I see through your eyes.

[00:21:39] I know who you are and I know where you're going to, what's going to stand out to you.

[00:21:41] And he taught you well in that sense.

[00:21:43] Very well.

[00:21:43] Right.

[00:21:44] He taught you well.

[00:21:44] Yeah.

[00:21:45] Yeah.

[00:21:45] And I, you know, I remember, I think the first time I met you and worked with you was

[00:21:48] when I first worked with Jamie King, which, um, I, I was, I was like, what?

[00:21:55] I mean, who, you know, he's a hustler.

[00:21:57] He makes that stuff work.

[00:21:58] What?

[00:21:58] What?

[00:21:59] It was, I had hit so many steps in one count.

[00:22:02] I never thought my body could do that.

[00:22:05] I was like, this is two counts.

[00:22:07] How did I hit that many steps?

[00:22:09] Um, but he's one of those people that will push you to a limit.

[00:22:15] Again, as a dancer outside kind of coming in, you guys had already worked with him before.

[00:22:19] I had never worked with him.

[00:22:21] I had only heard of him and seen his work, of course.

[00:22:23] Yeah.

[00:22:24] Right.

[00:22:24] And you always like aspire to work with someone like that.

[00:22:26] So I finally had the chance to work with him.

[00:22:28] And I just, I was like blown away, but he's one of those people that pushes you to your limit.

[00:22:34] And you, you like elevate.

[00:22:37] He pushed, he's, he, I think, no, twice.

[00:22:40] I've done it twice.

[00:22:41] Look, I can count them.

[00:22:42] The times that I said, I can't do that.

[00:22:44] That's not possible.

[00:22:44] And he's like, yes, you can.

[00:22:45] Yeah.

[00:22:46] There were two things.

[00:22:46] And he said, yes, you can.

[00:22:47] And then he showed me and I was like, God damn it.

[00:22:50] God damn it.

[00:22:51] Well, if you can do it, I gotta do it.

[00:22:52] It was something about my weight change that I wasn't doing the weight.

[00:22:55] And I was like, I don't see how my body can go that way.

[00:22:57] And then he, when he showed me, I was like, oh, okay.

[00:22:59] The body goes there.

[00:23:00] It taught me a lot in that moment though.

[00:23:02] Cause I had reached my limit.

[00:23:03] We had been doing so many combinations and so fast, so hard.

[00:23:07] And the things, so many.

[00:23:08] Jamie King fast.

[00:23:09] Jamie King fast.

[00:23:09] And, and like how, like an hour during this number in an hour.

[00:23:17] Right.

[00:23:18] Was creating my reality.

[00:23:19] That's not possible.

[00:23:20] Of course it is.

[00:23:21] Or, and now I look at it more like, well, how can I make that work?

[00:23:24] Not, is that possible or not?

[00:23:26] Right.

[00:23:26] It's all possible.

[00:23:27] How can I make it work?

[00:23:29] Or look like it, or look like it's supposed to look.

[00:23:31] Right.

[00:23:31] Right.

[00:23:32] His vision.

[00:23:33] I have to tell you.

[00:23:33] Give him his vision.

[00:23:35] Right.

[00:23:35] I have to tell you on Motown Live, that was, what, did you do the Christmas one?

[00:23:39] The Christmas episode?

[00:23:40] I don't remember.

[00:23:41] I thought.

[00:23:42] I know.

[00:23:43] Santa Claus is coming to town.

[00:23:44] That one.

[00:23:45] I didn't do that one.

[00:23:46] Okay.

[00:23:46] Well, I had a meltdown.

[00:23:48] Why?

[00:23:48] Talking about, you know, these like pillar moments.

[00:23:51] It was such a great show.

[00:23:52] It was like all Motown music.

[00:23:53] It was so cool.

[00:23:54] It was so good.

[00:23:54] I love seeing all the artists getting, all these different artists coming in week by week

[00:23:58] and us getting to do a whole number and like being seen as dance.

[00:24:01] A three and a half minute number of dance?

[00:24:03] Right.

[00:24:03] Very superstitious.

[00:24:04] What?

[00:24:05] I remember that.

[00:24:06] Nobody did that.

[00:24:07] Nobody did that.

[00:24:07] Yeah, Stevie Wonder.

[00:24:08] Even now, nobody does that.

[00:24:09] Yeah.

[00:24:10] He was all out of choreography at that point.

[00:24:12] He's like, I don't know what else to do.

[00:24:15] I had a meltdown on stage.

[00:24:17] Why?

[00:24:18] It was during the Christmas number and it was, the curtains were closed and they were about

[00:24:21] to open the curtains.

[00:24:22] And I was just, I think I'd just come from Italy where they were treating me like gold.

[00:24:28] I was, you know, there were screaming fans everywhere and free clothes and just the most respect

[00:24:34] everywhere.

[00:24:35] We're going to nightclub signing autographs.

[00:24:37] Of course.

[00:24:38] Making tons of money.

[00:24:39] And I came back from that to LA to just start working again in LA.

[00:24:46] And we, me and Sharon Ferguson, Miss Pussy Control.

[00:24:50] Yes.

[00:24:52] Shout out Sharon.

[00:24:53] We're the only two that did every single episode.

[00:24:57] Because I was too white and she was too black.

[00:25:01] Yeah.

[00:25:02] What?

[00:25:02] Yeah.

[00:25:03] The producers didn't want us because I was too white and she was too black.

[00:25:08] So anyways, for girls it was okay, but for the boys it was okay.

[00:25:12] I don't know.

[00:25:14] So I suppose we had a little something to prove and I don't, I don't, I don't, I just

[00:25:18] didn't feel particularly valued other than from Jamie, obviously from Jamie.

[00:25:22] Yeah.

[00:25:23] And the director was nice, but like overall it felt like a weird kind of battle a little.

[00:25:31] And there was something about the rehearsal and the time and the shooting and we were,

[00:25:35] I don't know, we weren't being treated, we weren't giving breaks or something.

[00:25:38] Something weird.

[00:25:39] Something's really weird.

[00:25:40] I just started crying.

[00:25:41] I was like, I just didn't, I didn't want to, I didn't want to do it anymore.

[00:25:43] I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.

[00:25:45] You were over it.

[00:25:45] Yeah.

[00:25:45] I was just so over it.

[00:25:46] I was like, I don't want to dance anymore.

[00:25:48] Oh my God.

[00:25:48] You wanted to quit dance?

[00:25:50] Yeah.

[00:25:50] Yeah.

[00:25:51] I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.

[00:25:51] Like this isn't, this isn't what I want to do.

[00:25:55] And open the curtains.

[00:25:56] Santa Claus is coming to town.

[00:25:58] Right.

[00:25:58] And then you're like, Merry Christmas everybody.

[00:26:00] Literally.

[00:26:01] Curtains.

[00:26:02] Santa, smiley, smiley, smiley.

[00:26:03] Like in tears.

[00:26:06] In tears.

[00:26:07] And had to just, had to just, boop, boop, turn it off and be done.

[00:26:09] Um, and it was, it wasn't that I held onto that, but I think it was one of those things

[00:26:18] where I realized I had to be more bold about standing up for myself and that I had parameters

[00:26:24] and boundaries that I had to be a stand for.

[00:26:30] Okay.

[00:26:31] And that I wouldn't put up with certain things on, on, on jobs.

[00:26:34] And do you think working with Jamie, that, that kind of helped that, like establish that

[00:26:39] within yourself or that was just something you for yourself?

[00:26:42] That was for me for myself.

[00:26:43] I don't know.

[00:26:43] At that time, I don't think Jamie would have ever, you know, I don't think that he was

[00:26:46] a, you know, big champion for the dancers.

[00:26:49] I mean, yes, he fought for us.

[00:26:51] Of course.

[00:26:51] To be on the job.

[00:26:52] But I don't know that, I don't know that many choreographers really stand up for the

[00:26:56] dancers in the production context.

[00:26:58] Um, maybe more now than before, before it was just like, do your job, just go do it,

[00:27:04] make it happen, make me look good, whatever.

[00:27:06] Yeah.

[00:27:06] Um, uh, not that Jamie was ever like that.

[00:27:10] Jamie was never like that.

[00:27:11] No, he was never like that.

[00:27:12] I, I just, I.

[00:27:13] He trusted us.

[00:27:14] He really did.

[00:27:15] And I, and I just, I just feel like for me, he just, I just, I, I just grew just as a

[00:27:23] dancer, but just like as a person, cause he pushed me past my limit.

[00:27:27] Yeah.

[00:27:28] And I, you know, I watch him like what I learned from him is the, the drive also that I don't

[00:27:40] necessarily need the drive that I don't need to.

[00:27:44] I don't need everything.

[00:27:46] I don't need everything.

[00:27:48] Jamie saw, Jamie really wanted to, he wanted this success.

[00:27:54] He wanted it so bad.

[00:27:55] I don't know that I've ever wanted it that bad.

[00:27:57] Like it's not that big a deal.

[00:27:58] That's, it's not what is important to me.

[00:28:00] Like success is, is his own thing.

[00:28:02] Like success, happiness is success to me.

[00:28:05] Friendship, joy is happiness to me.

[00:28:08] Success.

[00:28:08] Success.

[00:28:10] Um, but he was doing multiple jobs and like, like daytime rehearsing for this nighttime,

[00:28:15] you know, shooting the, you know, like he was doing three, four jobs at the same time,

[00:28:19] juggling them all, not sleeping, stressed out of his mind.

[00:28:23] Like it was crazy.

[00:28:24] He's built a huge empire.

[00:28:27] Absolutely.

[00:28:28] And he is, he is, he's just really, just really kind of gone there.

[00:28:31] And I want to go back to.

[00:28:32] So much respect for that.

[00:28:33] Yes, of course.

[00:28:34] And, and I want to go back to, you also worked with Michael Jackson.

[00:28:37] Yeah.

[00:28:38] And you worked on Blood on the Dance.

[00:28:41] Black or White, Blood on the Dance Floor.

[00:28:42] Black or White was the one, Blood on the Dance Floor.

[00:28:45] I did the MTV 10th anniversary special with him.

[00:28:47] Yeah.

[00:28:48] And, you know, at the time working with him, you know, that's on, I'm leading to Michael

[00:28:53] because I remember first seeing Jamie work with Michael on the history tour.

[00:28:59] I think it was when his hair was blonde.

[00:29:01] Dangerous.

[00:29:01] Oh, was it dangerous?

[00:29:02] Sorry.

[00:29:02] Sorry.

[00:29:02] Sorry.

[00:29:03] Yeah.

[00:29:03] Dangerous tour.

[00:29:04] And he was the, you know, the bright blonde dancer behind him.

[00:29:08] And so to be that close to a choreographer that had worked right behind Michael, you know,

[00:29:14] I feel like any of us that have been in Michael's presence or have worked with anyone that's worked

[00:29:18] with Michael, that kind of stuff like rubs off on you.

[00:29:21] And I feel like Jamie carries that.

[00:29:25] So that's why I was like saying that because it's the same thing with like Madonna.

[00:29:28] Madonna has that work ethic.

[00:29:29] Like she's, she is that right.

[00:29:31] And I don't want to make this all about Madonna and I'm getting to a point here.

[00:29:34] Uh, with Michael, same thing, knowing that his movie's coming up and stuff, you know,

[00:29:39] all these amazing people have this amazing work ethic.

[00:29:44] Yeah.

[00:29:45] Right.

[00:29:45] And so how has that rubs off on you?

[00:29:48] And like, what are you doing next?

[00:29:50] Where are we going?

[00:29:51] Like, where do we see Kevin?

[00:29:52] You've done all these amazing things.

[00:29:53] You worked on black and white Michael Jackson, which I love because that was like one of my

[00:29:57] favorite music videos of his.

[00:29:59] Um, but, um, but you know, where, where, where do we see Kevin now translate all of that

[00:30:04] from all these amazing individuals into what's next?

[00:30:08] Um, I think, I mean, I think that one of the things I observed most from Michael was his

[00:30:13] attention to creating something new.

[00:30:16] Like he had no limit.

[00:30:17] He had no limits on budget or what.

[00:30:20] No limits.

[00:30:21] No limits.

[00:30:21] At all.

[00:30:22] He was so focused on, I want to do something that's never been done before.

[00:30:26] That's beautiful.

[00:30:27] What a beautiful space to be in.

[00:30:28] I mean, I don't know that I'm in that.

[00:30:30] I don't know if I'm in that space.

[00:30:32] I don't quite have that budget.

[00:30:33] Um, but, um, I think between him and Prince both, there was this idea that it's all possible.

[00:30:43] Prince was like that.

[00:30:44] Yeah.

[00:30:45] Prince was definitely like that.

[00:30:46] It was showing that like music is music and you can mix genres, change things, put things

[00:30:51] together that have never been done before.

[00:30:53] Mm-hmm.

[00:30:54] And I see that with Prince and his music, which is like the freedom to be pop, then rock and

[00:30:59] R&B and, and a jam and a, huh?

[00:31:02] Like be all those things.

[00:31:03] Funk and soul.

[00:31:04] Yeah.

[00:31:05] And it's, and it's you and it's still you and it's okay and it's permitted and it's

[00:31:08] your artistry.

[00:31:09] And it's the same with Michael where he just wanted to do new imagery, new films and new,

[00:31:13] new, uh, technology.

[00:31:15] He was constantly creating.

[00:31:17] Always.

[00:31:17] He was like constantly creating and it was always innovative.

[00:31:21] It was always, you never could really pinpoint where it came from.

[00:31:24] Yeah.

[00:31:25] Until I saw the Bob Fosse movie, which was like, was it the serpent, the serpent dance?

[00:31:29] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:31:30] And I was like, oh, that's where he got it from.

[00:31:31] Oh, there it is.

[00:31:31] But he still made that whole vibe.

[00:31:34] Was it the Little Prince?

[00:31:36] It was the film, The Little Prince, right?

[00:31:38] Yeah, yeah.

[00:31:38] And so, and it was the snake dance.

[00:31:39] Was it Ben Vereen or something?

[00:31:40] No, it wasn't Ben Vereen.

[00:31:42] It was, um, I forgot the name of the dancer.

[00:31:44] I forgot the name of that dancer.

[00:31:45] Somebody famous, right?

[00:31:45] But it was, it was, it was a famous male dancer and he did, is it the serpent dance or the

[00:31:50] snake dance?

[00:31:50] Yeah.

[00:31:50] It was like something like that.

[00:31:52] I think it was like a serpent because he was hissing the whole time.

[00:31:54] And you could see the influence Michael took from that.

[00:31:56] Yeah, the hat.

[00:31:57] But he still, the hat, the, the, the socks with the high water pants and the loafers.

[00:32:03] The inspiration.

[00:32:04] But you, he still made it.

[00:32:05] He made it so cool.

[00:32:08] It was a, a, a, a.

[00:32:10] It was new.

[00:32:11] A renewed reference.

[00:32:12] It was a renewed reference.

[00:32:13] And you could, some would say maybe reimagined.

[00:32:16] But like, I would say, no, he made it his own.

[00:32:20] Oh, absolutely.

[00:32:21] He didn't just, he literally made, and he,

[00:32:24] and you could tell that he was in the studio kicking ass.

[00:32:27] It's like doing the chicken dance, but make it pop-locking.

[00:32:30] Right?

[00:32:31] Right?

[00:32:31] It's going to be something different.

[00:32:32] It's going to be referencing chicken dance, but it's going to be pop-locking.

[00:32:35] You know?

[00:32:35] And then, and then you could tell that he sat in the studio and refined that.

[00:32:40] Oh yeah.

[00:32:41] Until it became Michael Jackson.

[00:32:43] Yeah.

[00:32:43] Yeah.

[00:32:43] You know?

[00:32:44] And so, with working with people with that level of tenacity, you know, with everything

[00:32:53] that you're doing, because you do a hundred million things.

[00:32:57] From everything that you've learned, in a nutshell.

[00:32:59] Oh, gosh.

[00:32:59] You know, that you've learned from Michael Prince and Madonna.

[00:33:01] No.

[00:33:02] But, but, you know, these, these, again, these are people, and I bring them up because

[00:33:06] these are people that are like at the top of their game, whether, whether, you know,

[00:33:10] and we're at the top of the game, you know, RIP Prince, RIP Michael.

[00:33:13] But, but still, like, innovators at the helm.

[00:33:18] Yeah.

[00:33:19] Right?

[00:33:19] So to speak.

[00:33:20] So, and I've seen you in your career do that too with your music, and now you're moving

[00:33:24] it in your creative direction.

[00:33:25] Yeah.

[00:33:26] And you're moving into stuff.

[00:33:27] I know you have some stuff coming up.

[00:33:28] What is that?

[00:33:29] I do.

[00:33:29] What is that?

[00:33:30] A couple things.

[00:33:32] I'm actually hosting the choreography awards this year.

[00:33:35] Oh!

[00:33:36] Yeah.

[00:33:36] That's coming up soon.

[00:33:37] It's coming up.

[00:33:38] November 21st.

[00:33:39] Oh, cute.

[00:33:39] Before that, though, I'm doing a charity event up in San Francisco at the Foundry.

[00:33:45] Nice.

[00:33:45] At the Foundry SF.

[00:33:47] When is that?

[00:33:48] That is November 8th, 9th, and 10th.

[00:33:51] Cute.

[00:33:52] Yeah.

[00:33:52] Okay.

[00:33:52] Cute.

[00:33:52] It's called Circus Freaks.

[00:33:55] I think you can get tickets at circusfreaksshow.com.

[00:33:59] They're on Eventbrite as well.

[00:34:01] It's a really fun charity event benefiting Muttville Senior Dog Rescue.

[00:34:08] Aw.

[00:34:08] Very close to my heart.

[00:34:10] We love senior dogs.

[00:34:12] We love, love, love senior dogs.

[00:34:14] And, yeah, it's a night of fun and fabulousness and tons of crazy circus people and us dancers

[00:34:20] and some old school dancers and some surprises.

[00:34:23] Nice.

[00:34:24] Nice.

[00:34:25] Yeah.

[00:34:25] And then you seem to always be involved in something.

[00:34:30] Because I know you have something else coming up in February.

[00:34:32] Is that right?

[00:34:33] A couple things, yeah.

[00:34:34] Can you talk about them yet?

[00:34:35] I don't know if I can talk about it yet.

[00:34:35] Oh.

[00:34:36] Oh, okay.

[00:34:36] Yeah.

[00:34:37] We're getting close.

[00:34:38] She's being secretive.

[00:34:38] We're getting close.

[00:34:39] But it's a fun show.

[00:34:41] She's being secretive.

[00:34:41] It's a super fun show.

[00:34:43] She's being secretive.

[00:34:44] We'll be touring in February.

[00:34:45] That's okay.

[00:34:45] That's fine.

[00:34:45] We'll be touring in February for a little bit.

[00:34:48] Well, will you come back and talk to us about it?

[00:34:50] I will.

[00:34:50] Okay.

[00:34:50] I'm going to be dancing my ass off.

[00:34:52] Please.

[00:34:52] Please.

[00:35:07] 20 years.

[00:35:08] Happy.

[00:35:09] 30 years.

[00:35:10] Happy.

[00:35:12] I mean, really, that's the bottom line.

[00:35:13] It's happy.

[00:35:14] Like, I think if you're talking about nutshells of what I've learned from seeing all of these

[00:35:19] amazing maestros, et cetera, is that careful what you wish for.

[00:35:23] Be specific.

[00:35:25] If you're going to manifest.

[00:35:26] If you're going to manifest, be specific.

[00:35:28] Right.

[00:35:30] And all of that, all of that stuff has a cost.

[00:35:35] There's a really big cost.

[00:35:36] There really is.

[00:35:37] Yeah.

[00:35:37] You have to be ready for it.

[00:35:39] And if you're not ready for it, don't go for it.

[00:35:41] Like, be really truthfully honest with yourself.

[00:35:43] What you're willing to give up.

[00:35:45] Your privacy, your life, your time.

[00:35:48] Your sanity.

[00:35:48] The trolling, the hatred, the vitriol that comes your way.

[00:35:53] I'm not built like that.

[00:35:55] My skin is not thick enough to handle all of that.

[00:35:57] Yes, it is.

[00:35:58] No.

[00:35:59] No.

[00:36:00] No.

[00:36:00] Are you kidding?

[00:36:01] I'm really sensitive.

[00:36:02] I'm sensitive and shy.

[00:36:03] Because you're a Libra.

[00:36:04] She's a Libra.

[00:36:05] I don't sound sensitive and shy, especially not around friends.

[00:36:08] But, like, I'm very shy out in the world.

[00:36:12] Like, you put me in a club by myself, I'm going to go home immediately.

[00:36:15] Like, I don't, I can't.

[00:36:16] Really?

[00:36:17] Yeah.

[00:36:17] No, it's weird for me.

[00:36:19] I get a lot of social anxiety.

[00:36:21] You do?

[00:36:21] I do.

[00:36:22] Because we've gone out before.

[00:36:23] Yeah, we've seen it.

[00:36:23] And I've seen the social anxiety.

[00:36:25] I start getting like.

[00:36:26] Yeah.

[00:36:27] Yeah.

[00:36:28] Which is a real thing.

[00:36:29] Is there anything that you do for that?

[00:36:30] To calm yourself down when you find yourself in those moments?

[00:36:34] I think of my dog.

[00:36:39] Well, everyone's a friend that you just haven't met yet.

[00:36:42] So.

[00:36:42] Oh, that's a tagline.

[00:36:43] Yeah.

[00:36:44] I kind of just lean into that.

[00:36:46] And I search out an energy that I connect with.

[00:36:53] Sometimes there just isn't one.

[00:36:54] And that's when I get, I start getting like more anxious.

[00:36:57] Especially if I don't speak the language or something.

[00:36:59] Or if it's a crowd that's really not, that we don't have anything in common at all.

[00:37:05] I can turn on some charm.

[00:37:07] I can turn on some, you know, I can fake it till I make it sometimes.

[00:37:10] And often that is my go-to.

[00:37:11] Fake it till I make it.

[00:37:13] Because everybody's faking it.

[00:37:15] Everybody's just doing what they can.

[00:37:16] You know?

[00:37:17] And sometimes that's all it takes.

[00:37:18] You fake it and it's real.

[00:37:19] I'm trying to stay authentic.

[00:37:21] I try to be as authentic as possible.

[00:37:23] It's almost, not being inauthentic.

[00:37:26] Right, right, right.

[00:37:27] Not fake meaning inauthentic.

[00:37:29] But fake meaning, create the space.

[00:37:31] Create who you are, who you want to be.

[00:37:34] Or create the energy that you want to have in this space.

[00:37:38] And step into that.

[00:37:39] Whether you feel like it's there or not.

[00:37:41] It's not about whether it's there.

[00:37:42] It's kind of quantum thinking.

[00:37:43] Where it's like, well, if I think the space is there, it's there.

[00:37:46] And then I step into it and ta-da!

[00:37:48] I'm here.

[00:37:49] I'm here.

[00:37:49] Yeah, nice.

[00:37:50] It's like, who's designating you a star?

[00:37:55] Nobody but you.

[00:37:56] I'm a star.

[00:37:57] So get in.

[00:37:59] And then it's just about agreement.

[00:38:01] Get in or get out.

[00:38:02] Get in or get out.

[00:38:03] I'm a star.

[00:38:03] Nobody's going to say, nobody's going to like, there's no, you know,

[00:38:05] unless it's like a star on Hollywood Boulevard that you're using as your checklist.

[00:38:08] But like, nobody's out there going, you're a star.

[00:38:11] You have to believe it for yourself first.

[00:38:13] And then everyone else has to sign on.

[00:38:14] And that's also what you learn in the dance world, entertainment world, in life in general.

[00:38:19] Yeah.

[00:38:19] You have to say who you are.

[00:38:21] Right.

[00:38:22] And then, and be that to start.

[00:38:26] It's not like somebody's going to make you into that.

[00:38:28] Nope.

[00:38:28] Be it.

[00:38:29] And everyone else will just see it.

[00:38:32] That part.

[00:38:33] So, Kevin, thank you for being here.

[00:38:35] What's one phrase of advice that you would give anyone if you would say, you know, stay on a race of your own?

[00:38:40] If they had to stay on a race of your own, there's peaks, there's valleys, there's plateaus.

[00:38:43] And we might have said this already.

[00:38:45] And there's tumblewees or whatever.

[00:38:46] But what's one phrase, what's one thing you'd say to somebody that was trying to step into this world, step into entertainment,

[00:38:52] especially with the way the industry is going right now?

[00:38:55] A lot of things are changing.

[00:38:56] What's something you would say to encourage them to stay in a race of their own?

[00:39:11] Challenge, hardship.

[00:39:14] Let's see.

[00:39:15] How did I say that?

[00:39:23] Nice.

[00:39:24] Your biggest challenges and your biggest hardships and sufferings are the keys to your greatest successes.

[00:39:30] Nice.

[00:39:31] Don't look at them as things that tear you down.

[00:39:34] They are the things that make you strong.

[00:39:38] That's amazing.

[00:39:39] That's pretty nail on the head.

[00:39:41] Yeah.

[00:39:42] For the most part.

[00:39:43] I mean, when I look at my life, that's what I see.

[00:39:45] The things that I thought were the most dramatic, upsetting, challenging, distressing things were the things that gave me wisdom, that gave me life,

[00:39:54] that gave me an appreciation for everything that came after, good or bad.

[00:39:59] Like, at least I'm still here.

[00:40:01] At least I still love.

[00:40:03] At least I still went for it.

[00:40:05] At least I still did what I wanted to do.

[00:40:09] You took the risk.

[00:40:09] I took the risk.

[00:40:10] You took the risk.

[00:40:12] Yeah.

[00:40:12] And no matter what constraints came up, you still pressed on.

[00:40:16] And that's perspective.

[00:40:18] That's how you listen.

[00:40:20] It's, yeah, this is what's going to make me who I am.

[00:40:25] That's beautiful.

[00:40:26] Thank you for that.

[00:40:27] Really thank you for that.

[00:40:28] Thank you.

[00:40:28] I'm just proud to have you in my life and excited always to have you in my life and see you.

[00:40:34] Thank you for taking some time for being here.

[00:40:37] Where can people find you?

[00:40:39] On Instagram at KevinStay.

[00:40:41] That's S-T-E-A.

[00:40:44] On threads and TikTok.

[00:40:46] You're everywhere.

[00:40:47] And the 8 app.

[00:40:49] We are 8 app.

[00:40:51] And Facebook.

[00:40:53] And X.

[00:40:55] It's all just my name.

[00:40:56] It's all just KevinStay.

[00:40:57] All of it.

[00:40:58] Awesome.

[00:40:58] Thank you so much, Kevin.

[00:40:59] And I'm Virgie Rodriguez here for A Race of Your Own.

[00:41:02] Please tune in every Thursday at 9 a.m. Pacific time.

[00:41:06] Subscribe.

[00:41:07] Leave comments.

[00:41:08] Tell us what you thought about this.

[00:41:09] Let us know.

[00:41:11] And we'll see you soon.

[00:41:12] Bye.

[00:41:13] Bye.

[00:41:14] Bye.

[00:41:16] Bye.

[00:41:17] Bye.

[00:41:17] Bye.